Shut Up, Erik Larsen

Shut Up, Erik Larsen

May 12

Hey, you guys? Does anyone know what the hell Erik Larsen is trying to say? Maybe I’m having a hard time following along because it’s so different from Cosmo and all those, you know, girl magazines I read. I’m trying to be extra super-careful in my response because I don’t want to take Mr. Larsen out of context and misinterpret whatever it is he’s saying, like all of us intarweb “anonymous killjoys” love to do!

OK. I’m gonna skip the stuff about Al Gore (what?) and costumes and realism and get right to the meat, which elaborates on Why Women Don’t Read Superhero Comics (or maybe it’s Why Women Don’t Like Certain Comic Book Stores or What Women Are and Are Not Interested In…I’m not sure).

One of the reasons given for women not reading comics is the overly developed females that adorn many comic book covers. I find that notion a little ridiculous and somewhat insulting to the intelligence of women. Women aren’t stupid. They’re certainly capable of discerning what magazines are aimed at them and what ones aren’t on a magazine rack. Why should a comic book rack be any different? There are plenty of titillating pictures to be found on various magazine covers and women can figure out, in short order, the difference between “Playboy” and “Cosmopolitan” even though both feature attractive women on their covers.

Wow, “women aren’t stupid.” Enlightened! Yes, Erik, I can tell the difference between Cosmo and Playboy. And I don’t fucking read either of them. And I get the feeling that you’re trying to make a point here, but you’re coming off way condescending.

The reason women don’t go into comic book stores is not because of a few covers –it’s because there’s little to attract them into these stores and, if they did dare to wander into one of these often filthy little dens there’s very little in there for them to read. Women simply aren’t interested in adolescent male power fantasies.

OK, as the great Chris Stewart once said on a different comics-related topic: stop helping. First of all, why do you think you know what every female comics fan is thinking, especially since you just pissed a bunch of them off with your last column? How do you know what does and does not attract them to a store and what they are and are not interested in reading? I’m a female comics fan. Some of my first loves were the X-Men, Spider-Man and Batman. And yes, I also love the things that I guess are thought of as “girl comics” — Sandman and Ghost World and Blue Monday. I don’t think I’m as easy to pigeonhole as you seem to think — I don’t think most female fans are. For what it’s worth, I have “dared” to enter “filthy little dens” on occasion and have come out of it fairly unscathed. Do I prefer a clean, well-lit, well-stocked comic shop? Sure. Don’t most people? Of both genders? Maybe if you want to avoid being misinterpreted, you should also avoid sweeping generalizations.

There are magazines for men and ones for women and that’s fine. Women buy the magazines aimed at them. But dress up a place that sells magazines with shots from men’s magazines and women won’t dare step inside to buy a copy of Cosmo. The fault is not the magazines themselves — there should be men’s magazines — but rather, the way the storeowner has opted to display his or her merchandise. Racy comics are not to blame, but rather the storeowner who puts cheesecake shots on his walls and makes women feel unwelcome there.

Again, where is this “women won’t dare to such-and-such” coming from? Where are you getting all of this irrefutable data? If I feel “unwelcome” somewhere, it’s not because of big boobahs on the wall or the filthy floors and dusty shelves. It’s because of idiot fanboy clerks who are completely baffled by my presence or want to wow me with their superior geekness. And thankfully, I haven’t encountered that in quite a while. You want to know what really makes me feel “unwelcome,” not just in comic shops, but in comics fandom in general? Stuff like this column.

In the comic book stores that I go to, you are not assaulted by images of scantily-clad females at every turn (those stores are Comic Relief in Berkeley, California and Dr. Comics and Mr. Games in Oakland). They do carry those kinds of comics, sure, but their walls aren’t adorned with pictures of Lady Death and DarkChylde. Consequently, they tend to attract more female readers than many stores — they’re not there to buy most superhero comics, but these stores tend to stock books of interest to all readers — not just guys. Women can (and do) feel welcome there. Women don’t go to stores that specialize in baseball cards either and I don’t think it’s because of the racy posters and half-naked statues to be found there. There simply aren’t things of interest to women to be found there.

Points for name-checking two of my favorite comic stores on the planet, but again: why are you trying to tell me what I like? When I used to go to Dr. Comics (back when I lived right down the street), I’d pick up everything from The Authority to Batgirl to Strangers in Paradise. When I was younger, me and my brother used to tear around our tiny little town to tiny little “collector’s den”-type sleazeholes looking for basketball cards, comics and supercool Star Trek action figures. I’m not trying to use myself as the example that proves your statements wrong — I’m just saying you might want to think twice before proclaiming what is and is not interesting to women and what does and does not draw them in. I know plenty of geek girls and their tastes in geekish stuff vary a lot. Some of them like superheroes and some of them only read Love and Rockets and some of them even like sports memorabilia. OK?

Not many women read superhero comics, period. The subject matter, most often, does not draw them in.

If that’s the case, why am I able to go to When Fangirls Attack! nearly every damn day and find a collection of literate, well-written postings from a variety of sources — many of them *gasp* female — talkin’ about superheros? What about Ragnell and Kalinara and some of the righteous ladies profiled in Fangirl Rampage? I guess you could argue that this is “not many,” but…I think there might be just a few more than you seem to think.

Manga seems to have broken down a lot of barriers. Girls buy manga. They’re still not going to poke their heads into one of those shit-hole-esque comic book stores (and again, I don’t mean all stores here) but they will read them in a presentable bookstore.

Well, glad we cleared that up! Erik really knows What Women Want, doesn’t he?

But I’ve digressed somewhat from the point I started out making and that is that it is nearly impossible to stick in enough qualifiers to make any statement bulletproof and that even with said qualifiers in place to deflect any argument, those determined to take offence will find a way, be it taking isolated sentences out of context, misquoting or deliberately ignoring a person’s intent in order to start a fight.

And that sucks.

Erik, I’m not trying to start a fight and I’m also not trying to ignore your intent. What you wrote — this week and last — pissed me off. I diagree with it. I diagree with it for what I believe are valid reasons. I think it’s OK to express that, just as it’s OK for you to express your opinion.

The Internet seems rife with prickly individuals determined to argue minutia ’til the cows come home and beyond. Hardly a statement goes by without some anonymous killjoy assaulting it with some snarky comment. Perfectly wonderful projects are announced that get immediately dumped on by these prolific-posting wet blankets. I have to wonder if these pithy party poopers read anything at all other than columns, blogs and press releases that they can find fault with and poke holes in. Why so many of these boobs seem to idolize and aspire to be the “comic book guy” from the Simpsons is anybody’s guess but I, for one, get a little tired of it.

I won’t deny that there’s plenty of bitching on the internet. But a lot of responses I saw to your column last week were well-written, well-thought-out and expressed plenty of valid points. Just because they disagreed with you doesn’t make them wrong. Some were written by men and guess what? Some were written by women. So here’s an idea: maybe instead of trying to tell female fans what they are and are not interested in, what they do and do not like, maybe, just maybe, you should try listening to them.

128 comments

  1. Ragnell

    What kills me is that soemone actually linked my Phantom Lady Breastrospective at his message board, and he read it, and talked about it, and they all just assumed I was a man!

  2. Sarah

    I saw that! Didn’t they call you “that Ragnell fellow”? The cluelessness has so many layers…it’s like a cluelessness wormhole.

  3. That guy’s something else alright. Didn’t he suggest, in his last column, that women were complaining about Power Girl and Phantom Lady’s proportions because they didn’t measure up.

    So wait…why are we complaining about them if we don’t read and don’t step foot in comic shops?

    Then again, this guy lost me when he rambled about how all the “censorship” caused Marvel to make him tone down his art.

    If *Marvel*, of the Jean Grey cameltoe and the Ororo string-ensemble costume want you to tone down your art, the problem might just be *you*.

    And I’d thank him to shove his “women wouldn’t dare…” up his ass, but unfortunately, I’d imagine his head is in the way…

  4. Matt

    he lost me from the start. he immediately assumes it’s OKAY for mainstream comics to bestow power girl with huge boobs, or pretty much any heroine, because they’re for boys, and GIRLS ARE ICKY.

    that’s the fucking problem. same with newsarama’s incisive commentary on the mid-ohio-con scandal, run alongside a rotating banner ad for Victoria’s Secret Service. the chauvinism and objectification is so DEEP in comics culture and fandom (and really, geek culture in general, I’d argue) that everyone just sighs and assumes it.

    what takes intelligence from women, if I had to guess, would be to ignore the gratuitous ass shots and ginormous tits and actually try to relate to a story clearly trying to drive them away. THAT must take brains. i don’t know if I could do it. i’d probably just give up and, like, TOTALLY read Cosmo.

    math is hard, y’all!

  5. Chris

    Wow, Erik Larsen is possibly the LAST person you want speaking on women and comics. Stop helping indeed.

    First off, I don’t think there’s any such thing as a adolescent male power fantasy comic – though Larsen’s do come pretty damn close. It’s like saying there has to be a Black comic*. Why? One of my proudest comic nerd moments was sitting in a Jack in the Box at GDC when a group of black students wander in – the whole audience actually went friggin’ silent (not counting the two Canadians who were still talking) until these kids sit at a booth, pulled out some bags and starting going through their new comics and discussing the Star Wars Comics. Really, comics are way more than power fantasies, but those aspects that are power fantasies, they’re HUMAN power fantasies.

    Secondly, I think Erik is confused by the fact that women don’t read HIS comics. Not do a lot of men. It’s like the comic equivalent of “She’s a lesbian, that’s why she wouldn’t go out with me.”

    Naw dude, you’re just an asshole.

    I just read your open letter to Larsen, Ragnell – aaaaaawesome.

    *I did like a few of the Milestone comics though. I kind of regret not picking up the ones in the cheap bin on Saturday, Matt. Curse you, Matt – you and your cheap bins!

  6. Chawunky

    “Wow, Erik Larsen is possibly the LAST person you want speaking on women and comics.”

    Excepting of course, the delusional Dave Sim. But he’s on a whole other level.

  7. Hi all!
    i
    Bye

  8. Hi
    p
    G’night

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